Tuesday, March 20, 2012

Cosmocking! April '12! Part Two!

Okay, let's get this out of the way so I can write real posts again.  My jaw is finally healing (it seriously was horrible for a while there, I had wounds going down to visible bone in my mouth) and I got no excuse.

Cosmo's idea of "If Men Edited Cosmo." They don't think much of men I guess.
Do Women Wrestlers Know Something We Don't?
...How to wrestle?

(This turns out to just be a bunch of bad metaphors about how you should "never let your guard down" and "roll with the punches" and I think these are actually boxing concepts but whatever.)
You are out with pals and want the last bar stool but the chick in the adjacent chair has her purse hanging off it. Don't ask to sit there--it implies you think you're doing something wrong. Just take the seat.  She'll get the hint to grab her stuff.
Or there's someone sitting there!  For a magazine that tries to project an ultra-sophisticated, master-manipulator facade, Cosmo can be pretty dense about basic human interactions.  Anyway I'm pretty unclear on what happens if I "imply I think I'm doing something wrong."  Total ostracism from human society?
The Crazy Thing My Gyno Said to Me
This is a genuinely disturbing article.  It's a mix of the merely goofy:
"My gyno used a mirror to show me my cervix, which she called my 'pink doughnut.' Gross!"
And the completely inappropriate and borderline criminal:
"While doing an exam, my OB-gyn, his face closer to my hoo-ha than it needed to be, told me how beautifully groomed I was, then patted my butt.  I was so floored, I just mumbled 'thank you' and prayed for the exam to be over."
The upsetting thing is that Cosmo doesn't make any distinction between the two, nor any suggestion that the latter is something that you can take up with the doctor's employer or the state licensing board.  It's just another wacky hijink!  Just another thing that you're expected to put up with and shrug off.  The concept that sometimes shit is wrong and dangerous only exists in the "very special socially aware story of the month" section of Cosmo, and absolutely nowhere else.  Everywhere else, sexual harassment is a hijink.
My guy is small down below but gets really big when he has an erection.  Is this normal?
Yeah, it's called an erection.

The weirder part here, though, is the question of "normal."  I mean, clearly this isn't the symptom of a disease or some horrific genetic defect.  So does it really matter in some big anxiety-provoking way whether "small but gets big" is a common way for penises to be?  Unless you were considering whether to submit him to Ripley's Believe It Or Not, I guess.  Then you definitely want to do some research beforehand.



There wasn't much bad sex advice in this issue.  Cosmo, I am disappointed.  When you don't give me bad sex advice, I'm left with nothing but sexism and social buffoonery.  It gets depressing!  At least tell me something amusing I could do to testicles.

78 comments:

  1. You need to make a separate blog for Cosmocking, it's just too good.

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  2. Why would she? The rest of her posts are excellent as well. Why spread the awesome when you can have it all in one spot?

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    1. True, but then I could link to her Cosmocking on Facebook without completely scandalizing 99% of my friends. (Incidentally, I keep reading Cosmocking as Co-smocking, like conjoined twins in a shapeless garment. This may have something to do with a certain production of The Boys from Syracuse in which the chorus of "ladies of the evening" included such a set of twins.)

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    2. I often read it as "Cocksmoking"...which I guess could be a good or a bad thing? I dunno.

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  3. " At least tell me something amusing I could do to testicles. "

    On a good night in the dungeon, you can find PLENTY of things to do with testicles. Whenever I see a particular Domina play, I wonder if she uses some sort of Cosmo random generator to come up with her scenes...

    Testicles... Bowling ball... Hitachi...

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    1. All I needed to see was "testicles + bowling ball" and my face went D:

      I don't even know exactly what she intended to DO with the bowling ball. I don't WANT to know. OWOWOW.

      --Rogan

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    2. For my own peace of mind, I'm going to assume that those three things are entirely unrelated. The bowling ball was clearly used in naked bowling, and if anyone says differently I shall put my fingers in my ears and sing "lalalala!".

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  4. Two headlines caught my eye:

    'The right cleavage for every occasion', as opposed to the wrong cleavage I guess.

    And

    'His unmade bed shows he loves you', or it shows he hasn't made his bed. I really hate to think of the poor person who when walking into her boyfriends bedroom see's the bed is unmade and is delighted. I hope this person does not exist. Truly.

    Glad to hear you a on the mend Holly, your jaw sounds like it was horrific. I can't wait to see you getting back to your regular posting, but get well first.

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  5. ^Well, as a naturally messy/overly busy person, I am delighted* when I see proof that the guy I'm dating is not a neat freak and that therefore, my low housekeeping standards will probably not bug him.

    *or at least mildly relieved

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  6. "Why your period hurts your guy almost as much as it hurts you"?

    Wtf, no it doesn't.

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    1. Don't you know how much men ~SUFFER~ at the hands of their girlfriends being crazy hormonal bitchez when they're on their periods!?![/sarcasm]

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  7. ' "God, you're almost too big!" 21 sexy lines he really wants to hear.'

    Um...this is probably better in theory rather than practice. I had a boyfriend at one point who really was 'almost too big', in that I could only just fit him in with tonnes of lube, and sex was so painful that about 2 minutes of gave me cramps for an entire day afterwards and could therefore never run to completion for either of us. This problem could probably have been solved if we'd got to know each other better and not been so embarrassed that we stopped trying (we are both shy people)- it was definitely a problem rather than a sexy advantage. And if I had said this 'sexy' line it would have been more like a scream of pain. Fuck you, Cosmo. And seriously, can be get over this social idea that men with big penises get some sort of magical penis award and men with small penises are CONSTANTLY compensating for it? It's used for peeing and sex, people, I'm pretty sure it's not actually talking to him all day long and telling him how to act.

    Also, I'm starting to think there is another social idea that gynos are people who are allowed to do WACKY THINGS to your genitalia and it's FUNNY because they are allowed to!!! OH the hilarity! I've noticed it in jokes before, in films and TV shows, and I never find it even slightly funny. And fuck that article soooo much. I hope the 2nd one is made up and that did not actually happen to someone.

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    1. "I'm pretty sure it's not actually talking to him all day long and telling him how to act."


      Weeeeeeeelllllll, there's this manga called Chintsubu...

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  8. I wonder if it is bad that I didn't realize that that's not supposed to be a real Cosmo cover. Had I not read the caption I would never have guessed that it's supposed to be "If Men Edited Cosmo" and tries to somehow be different from … well, Cosmo editors editing Cosmo.

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    1. Same here! I wonder if anyone on the staff noticed?

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    2. Yeah, I didn't, either, and even once I'd read further and realized it was supposed to be some kind of spoof, I still can't see the difference. It's difficult to spoof something that's already a caricature.

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    3. Same here on the not noticing...

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    4. I didn't notice either. Apart from "How to handle a bitch", none of it sounds at all strange for Cosmo. I guess it's all focused on things that Cosmo-universe men would care about, like encouraging you to be naked and show cleavage, but Cosmo is pretty well focused on that most of the time.

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    5. Same here - probably the best proof that Cosmo is ridiculous, like a politician that can best be "spoofed" by simply repeating their crazy-talk verbatim, because no-one can think of anything sillier to say.

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  9. ha - Anon I'm in the same boat as you... no idea it was the 'male edited edition' until I read the article.

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  10. OHHH. I missed that caption.

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  11. Cosmocking is terrific as usual, Holly! I've come out of lurking to pick on my personal pet peeve amongst this round of inane Cosmo-isms: The barstool issue.

    Seriously? Asking someone politely if you can take their apparently unoccupied barstool is too passive somehow? I don't think I've ever been met with aggression after saying something like, "Excuse me, is anyone sitting here? May I sit here?" But hey, what do I know? I guess bitches be catfightin' over barstools all the time! :P

    So, not only does Cosmo think men are some weird, foreign species who can only be navigated via manipulation, apparently other women are as well. Yay for being at passive-aggressive odds with EVERYONE ELSE ON EARTH*!

    *Trans and genderqueer don't exist in Cosmoland, I'm guessing.

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    1. Trans and genderqueer people do exist in Cosmotopia, sort of, theoretically, and they are also weird, foreign species who can only be navigated via manipulation.

      On the other hand, they seem to exclude all even slightly 'tomboyish' women as well. Assuming that use of a non-floral hammer is 'tomboyish'...

      Cosmo's view of gender makes me think "well, if this was true and men and women are this different, they are clearly not compatible in any way... why isn't everyone gay?"

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    2. Use of hammer, period, is un-feminine and you should always get A Man to do it. Even when said man is paraplegic or a 4-year-old, it's their job to do the hammer stuff!

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  12. Holly, you missed the lulziest thing in this issue. In the sex survey, they ask men what their favorite kind of bondage is. The #1 answer is...

    SPANKING.

    Cosmo, that is... not what bondage means. (Thankfully the #2 and #3 responses are "tying someone up" and "being tied up," so... yay for people whose favorite kind of bondage is bondage?)

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    1. "What's your favourite vegetable?" "Steak!"

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    2. I'm kind of inclined to be charitable and assume they meant "BDSM".

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    3. @EarlierAnon - Actually, mine's pizza :P

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  13. Deficient in bad sexxx tips? Here you go: http://expertcosmotips.tumblr.com/ (NSFW)

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  14. ...okay, I thought that that cover was real until I read your description underneath. What does THAT say about Cosmo? Yikes.

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  15. I didn't read it closely at first - "You're almost too big" and "Are you spending enough time naked?" were not particularly jarring for Cosmo.

    Also, glad your jaw is on the mend!

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  16. Long time reader, first-time commenter, and all I can say is: My god. They really hate men, don't they? Whenever I encounter a bigot who brands feminists as man-hating, I'm going to show them this non-feminist example of popular media.

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    1. Hershele OstropolerMarch 21, 2012 at 8:28 AM

      I'm not sure Cosmo's misandry is obvious to people who aren't in the right ivory tower. A lot of people who think feminism is man-hating have some pretty fucked up ideas about masculinity themselves, and may well find Cosmo supports those ideas.

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    2. I don't really see any substantial difference between their fake cover and the real ones.

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  17. I looked at "are you spending enough time naked?" and thought "No, but they aren't giving us enough heat."

    For the first several years we lived here, we got enough heat that I sometimes had the windows wide open while it was snowing. I liked being naked--it's just comfortable--and find that I resent needing both a blanket and flannel pajamas to sleep. This may be unreasonable: blankets and pajamas are more environmentally friendly than coal- or oil-burning power plants.

    And once again, I suspect "I want to be able to sleep naked" (where sleep is not a euphemism) isn't what they're getting at, and "I would like to be naked while I'm home alone, making tea or reading my email" really isn't.

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  18. > My guy is small down below but gets really big when he has an erection. Is this normal?

    Wow, I totally thought the concept of 'grower' and 'shower' were common knowledge.

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    1. yeah it's like wow complete sex knowledge fail right there. I guess you(meaning stupid person who doesn't understand male anatomy but sleeps with men, not you in particular ten) probably also think that babies come from the stork right?

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  19. First of all, I've had sex with someone who was "almost too big." When it works it's awesome. But in order for it to work, we need a huge bottle of silicone lube, at least half an hour, and a vibrator. And then I need little breaks every 15 minutes. Otherwise... I'll think it's working, and then the burning pain will start.

    Second, I've only had a male gyno once (he was awesome), but there was a female nurse hanging out in the room with us. I was under the impression that it is standard protocol to have a supervisor. So if you're being examined by a male doctor, and he's the only person in the room with you, that's the first sign that you should run out and file a complaint. And if he touches your ass or comments on how "beautifully groomed" you are, shit just got serious.

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  20. It really says something about Cosmo that, even though I read much of what was on the cover, it wasn't until I had it pointed out to me by your article that I realized this cover was supposed to be a parody. Their regular stuff isn't all that different from their "written by men" hypothetical.

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  21. Keyboard warriors unite! If it's alright for you to say that society's ideas about masculinity and femininity are bogus based on nothing more than the fact that you don't like it (which is ultimately what it boils down to), then it's also ok for me to say that your ideas are crap because I don't like them. Most women buy these magazines and believe the crap that's in them because society tells them it's beneficial. You reject it because it doesn't fit the way you would like to see the world. I'm guessing it's probably mostly due to years of insecurity and feeling like you could never be a good example of conventional femininity anyway so eventually you resolved that resenting it would make it all go away. Are you seriously wasting your time reading cosmo simply to find things to complain about? Does a lot of the crap in cosmo do harm? possibly But I could also ask, does a lot of the crap on your blog do harm? possibly. The very fact that you call out cosmo for printing insensitive material implies that you yourself are being insensitive of their ideas. If you don't like the magazine, don't buy it. don't read it. don't encourage others to buy or read it.

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    1. You're being very insensitive of my insensitivity toward their insensitivity.

      Also: if Cosmo is the standard-bearer for femininity itself, we are all so fucked.

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  22. and if you are the standard bearer for femininity, we are even more fucked. I'd much rather prefer a girl who reads cosmo than your blog. I don't even know how I ended up here in the first place. I think I won't be back.

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    1. Wow, you're pretty worked up about an article about barstool etiquette and creepy gynecologists.

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  23. Wow, I'd have thought it was pretty uncontroversial to write about honest and open communication, acceptance of all sexualities and enjoyed activities, and finding one's own method of expressing gender. Why does all of that bite you so much?

    Cosmo enforces traditional femininity through making women insecure and afraid of what will happen if they choose an alternative. It also discourages honest communication between partners and people in general. It promotes an unhealthy view of the world and an individual woman's relationship to it. If you want to really get how this takes place, read Cosmo and imagine that it is giving advice to YOU, not to your potential girlfriend.

    By the way, you're free to date whoever you want, but it's interesting that you'd choose a Cosmo reader over a Pervocracy reader. I think I know why, but I'd love to hear an explanation.

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    1. And those who choose an alternative to traditional femininity normally do so because they're afraid of what might happen if they tried to embrace normal femininity. You lash out at stuff like cosmo and choose to reject its ideas for the same reason most women accept its portrayal of femininity. It makes you feel insecure about your sex appeal. Everybody wants to be sexually appealing. I commend those who are willing to accept that they just simply aren't going to appeal to everybody or even most. You are obviously not one of those people if your reaction to cosmo's advice is criticize its obvious error. Have you ever considered that maybe outside of your feminazi cohorts some people actually do communicate and express themselves in a manner different from your own....and it's ok? If you really think that people should just express themselves however they want and be whoever they want in their sexuality, then cosmo's ideas should hit you as nothing more than something that doesn't really apply to or interest you. You probably think that society should be enlightened and reject conventional norms about gender but doesn't that ultimately only serve to embrace one set of ideals while rejecting another (the conventional)? That leaves us right back where we started, the only difference being that in your ideal world it's the conventional minded people writing on websites like this. I have no problem with you having qualms with a magazine encouraging poor communication or misinformation. I'm just saying its bull shit that you consider yourself open minded and accepting or whatever else but you complain about their idea of femininity as if yours is superior. Cosmo isn't telling you you're wrong if you disagree with them. they are simply trying to sell a magazine with things they know that most women are interested in reading. I've had a lot of friends, though I will admit none that I was terribly close with, who love this feminist jargon but ultimately the thing that I never found attractive about them was that they were all somewhat weak, impulsive, and insecure people who chose a rejection of conventionality as an excuse for their insecurities and as a way to find validation. I was still willing to be their friend because we happened to have certain things in common and in general I enjoyed their company. However, I would not have dated any of them. Even though some of them were sexually appealing, despite their best effort to reject any form of conventional sex appeal.

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    2. So, um, you're saying that she should have just gone ahead and taken the barstool?

      A purse on the barstool means someone might be sitting there, dude! It's very rude to just move in without asking!

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    3. Seriously it's amazing that you're reading this sweeping rejection of all femininity into things like thinking "Do Women Wrestlers Know Something We Don't?" is a funny headline.

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    4. They excluded the option that a normal person would consider whether or not the purse even belongs to the person you might think it does in the first place.

      Either way, who cares? i seriously doubt women do what these magazines say, even on the rare occasion they remember it enough to apply it to a situation.

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    5. Also, maybe the girl at her OB gyn wasn't actually offended by what he did, just really surprised and not necessarily in the mood. Is it really inappropriate and "wrong" if she doesn't consider it such a big deal?

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    6. I think it's funny that someone going "why do you care what a magazine says?" cares so much what a blog says.

      ...Also apparently letting OB-gyns pat your ass during a pelvic exam is something you just have to be in the mood for?

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    7. I don't care much what your blog says.

      If someone normally is ok with strangers patting their ass but in this case was not, then I would say it's up to them to decide whether or not it's something that they just have to be in the mood for...not you.
      You're speaking as if this situation is an example of absolute wrong. I just don't think it necessarily is.

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    8. If someone normally is ok with strangers patting their ass
      Uh... you know a lot of people like that?

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    9. And those who choose an alternative to traditional femininity normally do so because they're afraid of what might happen if they tried to embrace normal femininity.

      And you would know this how? Oh, right. Pulled it out of the All-Knowing Ass.

      Personally I go on the assumption that since I am female, I have as much right as anyone to determine what is "feminine." I do whatever the heck I want and CALL it feminine. Works a treat.

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    10. a couple but none that I would consider highly normal individuals.

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    11. Jeff, how would you feel if during a prostate exam, the doctor told you that you had a nice bum and then copped a non-therapeutic feel?

      I don't think your response would be "well, maybe he thought I was in the mood for that, it's not an absolute wrong."



      Also it's hilarious that of all my posts, you chose this one to make your battleground over my supposed deep psychological issues with femininity itself. Letting OB-gyns grope you is... feminine?

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    13. I'm going to bed now but rest assured I'll delete all abusive/useless comments in the morning.

      And I'll delete them in a highly undermine manner.

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  24. It's her blog, she can allow whatever posts she wants.

    And as for the comment that "those who I have known that reject conventional femininity... tend to be somewhat weak, impulsive, and insecure people who try to use a rejection of femininity to hide their insecurities that stem from comparing themselves to conventional femininity", I don't know what women you've known (I'm guessing there's only been a couple who fall into this catagory and you didnt' actually know them that well), but in my experiance it's been the complete opposite. Most of the women I know aren't conventionally feminine, and they are mostly strong and self confident people. I have met many more insecure women who try and live up to the model of femininity when it's clearly not something they're comfortable with.

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  25. Oh, also, I found this and thought of you: http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/women.png

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  26. Hello! I've been reading your blog for a while and enjoy it a lot. The cosmocking is great. Thank god Swedish cosmopolitan isn't SO stupid. Anyway, I stumbled across this and thought of you:
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1alnnCzbe1r1vqt4o1_500.png

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  27. At least tell me something amusing I could do to testicles.

    Oh, oh! "Paint a happy face on one, and a sad face on the other, and make them argue! Your guy will love the sensation of the brush, and you'll enjoy the talking because what girl doesn't love a little drama?"

    ...oh god, even when it's for a joke, I feel a little sickened with myself.

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  28. Cosmo does contain a lot of messages about gender norms and expectations. The anonymous man who has blasted Holly for mocking Cosmo may not appreciate her critiques. However, Holly has pointed out that some of advice for pleasing a man sexually is way off the mark. Intentionally using teeth during fellatio or grabbing or twisting a man's cock or balls really hard when fooling around can be painful. Most men would rather avoid these kinds of activities.

    Some men may not agree with how Holly makes fun of Cosmo. However, they should appreciate how she discounts crappy sex advice because it may cause pain or injury.

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  29. Wow. I didn't realise this was supposed to be a spoof cover AT ALL until I read the comments! It all sounded so normal for Cosmo!

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  30. Electra, I too was trying to figure out why April's Cosmo had two covers. All the articles seemed perfectly Cos-normal.

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  31. "They don't think much of men I guess."

    They don't think much of women either, if I'd guess.
    Which doesn't seem to matter anyway as long as enough women voluntarily spend money on this crap.

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  32. You may find this spoof Cosmo cover entertaining: http://alifeonthecoast.tumblr.com/post/20781706045/accurate

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  33. @Jeff “Also, maybe the girl at her OB gyn wasn't actually offended by what he did, just really surprised and not necessarily in the mood. Is it really inappropriate and ‘wrong’ if she doesn't consider it such a big deal?”—jeff

    What fresh rape apologetics fuckery is this?! YES, TOUCHING SOMEONE’S BODY IN A SEXUALLY EXPLICIT WAY WITHOUT THEIR CLEAR PERMISSION IS ALWAYS WRONG!!!

    Also, speaking as a future MD (medical student), there is absolutely, positively, utterly no situation where bringing sex into the doctor-patient relationship is OK. It’s an unequal relationship where the patient tells all their deepest darkest secrets and the doctor gives advice from a position of authority.

    I mean
    Mr. Smith: “Sometimes I..um…have trouble peeing. I, uh, kinda had a wild and crazy night last month. And, uh, some drugs and sex with strange…uh…men…was…may have been involved. God, I hope my wife never finds out, it was just, y’know, just a crazy night. Anyway, um, now I just, just can’t…pee. ”
    Dr. Jones: “Okay, I just need to do a digital rectal exam.”
    Mr. Smith: “Oh, uh, oh…well…uh…Oh-OK.”
    Dr. Jones: “And have I mentioned beautiful your asshole is ?” (*Pats ass*)

    That is not something that any mood can make OK! It doesn’t matter what the patient’s mood is.

    Even if the patient is just coming to you for a cold, the risk of harm is way too high to make this ever acceptable, but when a woman is on her back, completely vulnerable, having uncomfortable instruments stuck up her vagina so she can avoid cervical cancer, that is when you need to be the most sensitive/least sexual assault-y. I live in a Hispanic-majority city where cervical cancer death is higher than normal because there’s a strong cultural taboo against letting near-strangers stick things in your vagina. So we’re even given strict instructions to avoid even the slightest perception of a sexual innuendo. We say “let your legs fall open” instead of “open your legs” and “I’m going to place my fingers in your vagina now” instead of “I’m going to insert my fingers into your vagina now”. Sexually assaulting a woman during a cancer screening isn’t even just ordinary levels of sexual assault wrong. It’s increasing the risk that she won’t get cancer screenings in the future wrong. It’s putting her life at risk wrong.

    Also, the woman DID consider it a big deal! “I was so floored, I just mumbled 'thank you' and prayed for the exam to be over."

    What about that statement does not say “sexual assault victim” to you?


    So let’s review the levels of wrong here:
    1. Sexual touching without clear permission is sexual assault.
    2. Sexual touching in a doctor-patient relationship is an abuse of the doctor-patient relationship and should result in some serious consequences for the doctor.
    3. Sexual touching that may discourage someone from taking life-saving actions is negligent homicide.
    4. Cervical exams (and other exams that have the potential to make the patient feel vulnerable and violated, like digital rectal exams) are particularly delicate and need to be handled with particular sensitivity, which makes sexual assault in that situation particularly wrong.
    5. This woman felt wronged.

    Oh, but was it really “wrong”? YES IT FUCKING WAS!

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    1. Thanks, Juniper. You said it way better than I did.

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    2. late...
      Juniper: you are my hero.

      i'm one of those people who likes jokey-stuff to happen when an unpleasant procedure is occuring. example: my OB was attempting [for the second time] to emplace Esure in my left fallopian tube [the right one was easy. the left... not so much] the entire length of the first procedure, i cracked jokes. so the second one [which was worse, and ultimately failed - but she *did* tie my tubes a couple months later, when i had to have a stomach surgery anyway] she herself was jokey. it started with "Oh, look at the cute widdle uterus" and "i think they modeled the plush uterus after yours!" and went as far as "ok, your uterus is trying to kill me. tell it to heel!"

      that was possible ONLY because she and know each other well enough [she trained as an OB nurse under my mom, 20 years ago. we kept in touch, and after too many horror stories, she offered to be my OB if "it didn't feel to weird to [me] to have a friend do it"], have similar personalities and senses of humor [sense of humors?]. i went to this OB because my last OB was NOT cool. her jokes were things like "but look at the uterus, so EMPTY, it's positively STARVING for a fetus!" TBH, i'm not sure these WERE jokes, though she claimed they were. [she was one of the OBs who, when i asked for steralization, gave me the "have 3 kids and permission from your husband" speeches. when i pointed out that pregnancy will kill me, her response was "but you might change your mind." what?] because of that bad OB, i almost gave up on getting Esure or a ligation... which could, indeed, have led to my death. i grant that i'm a weird situation, but the principle is the same: the doctor works FOR the patient, but patients generally don't really get this, because the MD has the knowledge and the power, and if you say to a doctor "look, you work for ME, stop blowing me off and treat me the way i want to be treated and actually TREAT MY PROBLEM", well, you aren't going to get ANY treatment from that doctor.

      likewise, many patients are so scared about everything that they would do almost ANYTHING if a doctor said to. that's why the law is [theoretically, not always practically] so hard on doctors who "molest" their patients in the [hopefully fictional] fashion described. you're flat on your back, no leverage, THINGS sticking in you; on a fundamental level, it already FEELS sort of like rape, or at least a violation. for your OB to take it further... *shudder*

      well, that's my book - it got long. sorry :(

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